Take that demotion

I’ve demoted myself twice in my career so far. The first one happened back in August 2020:

It’s a hot summer, and another wave of COVID hits my country. I sit on the living room sofa, looking for Engineering Manager roles to apply to. Barely moved from this spot in the past month.

I enjoyed my last 2.5 years as a first-time EM. But after 6.5 years total in the same company, I decided to move on (being underpaid definitely didn’t help).

When I visit companies' career pages, I see many senior engineer openings. I briefly read the descriptions, and they feel intimidating. I tell myself I want an EM job and that it's critical for my career to not get demoted. But I also don't feel confident that I'll be able to get those roles. I prefer doing ten behavioral interviews to even one technical.

I've applied to ~30 companies so far, many of them through my friends, and gotten ZERO phone screenings. “We look for more management experience.” A good friend of mine replies on WhatsApp that unfortunately I'm not a fit for an EM role there, but would I like to apply as an engineer?

It's the third such reply in this week. To the two previous ones, I wrote thank you, but no - I really want an EM role, it's critical to my career.

I'm eating leftover pasta from yesterday's order (or is it from the day before? Too easy to lose track of days in the lockdown). Exhausted.

So I think, “Fuck it, let's do it”, and reply to him: “Yes, I'd like to try. Can you tell me what to learn for the technical interview? I'm very rusty 😅”

I passed that interview and joined Taranis as a software engineer a month later.

I learned fast and did a pretty good job, but after a few months I felt bored. I was used to being involved in multiple projects and not just working on my own tasks. I continuously bugged my manager (and his manager) with suggestions on how we could improve our processes. When they agreed, I led some changes myself (like improving how we do production support). 

When you switch from being an IC to a manager, it’s a different career path, not just a promotion. It feels like a completely different role.

But if you start as an IC with a management path in mind (especially as an ex-EM), it’s like level 0 on the management ladder. You have a lot of time on your hands, and you can do so many great things that will buy you credibility for years to come. 

After 14 months, my manager moved to a tech lead role, and I became the team’s EM.
2 years later, I was promoted to a Director of Engineering role, managing 2 teams.

That year as a senior engineer was a huge gift. It helped me understand our systems better, provide better guidance to my engineers, and be a better partner to the PM, all of which helped in the promotion to director. 

After 4.5 years at Taranis, in January 2025 I quit to take a career break and figure out what I wanted next.

That journey lasted 8 months and was full of great experiences (like launching my own startup), but I ran out of the money I had allocated to it, and in August 2025 I was looking for a full-time engineering management role. 

And again, I didn’t have enough experience in my last management role. There was almost no chance I’d land a Director role at a larger org (100+ engineers). 

So I decided to take the demotion path again and start as an EM. I looked for a place where I could learn from other directors, and where there were growth opportunities.

In a month, I’ll wrap up one year at HoneyBook. 

It has definitely been my most challenging EM role so far, and I’m glad I chose it. I’m a much better manager than I was a year ago. There are director openings, but both my manager and I agree it’s too soon for me. Still, I have no doubt I’ll reach it in a couple of years. I feel that I operate differently than the EMs around me. I look outside of just my own team, trying to help where I can, changing things for the better for the whole engineering org.

I now know firsthand the challenges of the EMs in my org, much better than I would have known if I started as a director.

I’m writing the story as it unfolds - who knows what turns my career will take. But so far, I think doing a ‘switchback’ was a good option:

The 3 engineering management career moves

There are 3 classic career moves:

1. The ascent. Going straight up, either inside the same company, or switching from an EM/Director at a big company to a Director/VP/CTO in a smaller one. James Stanier (author of my favorite engineering management book) made such a move last year - from a Director of Engineering at Shopify to CTO at Nordhealth's veterinary business.

2. The traverse. The most common one. You do multiple EM roles in different companies, then get promoted, then rotate director roles, and so on.

3. The switchback. Mountain roads usually don't run straight up. They switchback, going sideways and sometimes down, while slowly gaining elevation. That’s the move I chose twice:

No career is defined by one move. Some people go back to lower levels and stay there. Some go straight up and then sideways at a certain level.

The important part is to not get too detached from the work of the people you manage. I've seen directors of engineering jump from managing one group to another, staying high in the clouds. They try to focus on strategy and direction and are alienated from the challenges of the EMs in their org. Same with EMs who barely remember the time they were engineers. 

That’s why I feel it’s critical to experience the work your employees are doing, as I wrote in the death and revival of the hands-on engineering manager, even if you stay at the same level.

But if you consider a switch, today is a perfect time to demote yourself:

The perfect time for a demotion

With the crazy flattening all around us, it’s very hard to find a management job at your own level. EM roles require tons of management experience AND hands-on experience, and Director roles require a previous VP’s scope.

When you go one level down, you easily clear the management-related requirements, and you will probably nail all the non-technical interviews.

Yes, you will still need to pass the technical parts (whether in engineer or EM roles), but it’s easier than you think. As someone who interviews ex-managers for engineer roles, I can tell you - you are very much in demand. You bring a lot of very valuable experience in the AI era, and companies love that. Many places also expect you to be rusty and will be easier on you (as long as you show a solid grasp of the basics and a willingness to get your hands dirty and close the gaps).

I’m not saying it’s always the right move - there are definitely downsides. Getting promoted in the management track requires internal opportunities, which might not arrive. It also usually involves a pay cut.

And yet, with the crazy pace things are changing today, I believe everyone should at least consider it.

What I enjoyed reading this week

1. The Art of Simplifying Decisions. Decision-making is the bottleneck today.

2. The new version of context engineering (Read this before deleting your AGENTS.md). Tips on reducing your context’s size.

3. The rise of the end-to-end operator. I feel EMs a with product orientation are perfectly positioned for this.